S01E01. Outcome through Community
In this episode of OPTICal allusion, we dive deep into the power of community in the classroom. Join us as Shari McNeil, a passionate first-year teacher, shares how prioritizing connection over outcomes transformed her students' learning experience... and led to better outcomes!
Using her experience of fostering relationships with students, families, and even fellow teachers, Shari shows how building a strong community can uplift students and create a more inclusive, engaging, and supportive environment.
This episode is a must-listen for educators and parents alike, offering inspiring, real-world strategies for creating classrooms where every student thrives.
Transcript
Whether you're an educator or a parent, tune in to learn how we can celebrate diversity and promote academic success for all students. Now, here's Optical Illusion.
mmunity the priority in your [:I heard you use the phrase, over outcomes. And so we're excited to hear what you have to share with us today. First, I want to know why did you consider prioritizing community as the primary MBL element you wanted to focus on?
Shiara McNeil: Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for having me. This is my first time at a podcast. I'm pretty nervous, but I'm really excited to be here.
I think really all it comes down to is the, Just like my individual experiences in like my journey to become a teacher and then in my first year of being a teacher During my undergrad and my teacher prep courses. I had a professor. It was actually a science class interestingly enough Where on the first day he opened up talking about ACEs, adverse childhood experiences And that was the first time in my whole entire life and even like post secondary experience that I've had a teacher who was talking about trauma in the classroom.
And so I really just bonded [:Right. And he just told me to read a book. It was called Barking to the Choir by Gregory Boyle. And so I went home that summer and I absolutely devoured that book and it just completely changed my perspective on everything. Like it was a great read, definitely recommend it. Not sponsored by that book or anything, but it's a great read.
And some of the things that he, um, Gregory Boyle talks about in that book is just like living alongside We're not there to fix them. We're not there to save them. We're just there to live alongside them. Like that's the best thing you can do for a person who has trauma, just live alongside them and support them.
o talked about measuring the [:Like it makes you think of UDL, like when you drop a sidewalk so that people can have a wheelchair and get across the street, it helps moms who are pushing strollers. It just helps everyone. So just that idea of like health and wellness, cause I had also been to some other seminars where they were talking about health and wellness and how important that is to, uh, Just like your trajectory as a teacher.
So I think those experiences really kind of made me decide, okay, I'm not just trying to do the teaching part, right? Like I want to actually do the human part, right. And make sure I'm reaching out and connecting with my students and also making sure I'm centering their wellness and the wellness of my community first, if that makes sense.
Donita Torres: Totally. Yeah.
Shiara McNeil: I've got
in your classroom. Um, so I [:Shiara McNeil: Yeah, great question. I think one of the first things that I did was at open house. I tried to, um, make sure my families and my students knew who I was first as a teacher. And like my hobbies and passion, like I didn't want them to come in and think like, okay, you know, it's another Just disembodied figure who my student is with all day, right?
t kind of stuff falls to the [:You're totally welcome to do that. If you want to come in and help cut paper, you're totally welcome to do that. If you know something about what we're learning, I would love to have you come present because I'm not the only teacher here, right? Like, they're learning from you just as much. And I feel like that was the first moment I had parents like, Okay.
You know, apprehensively, maybe I will come in. So I did have a mom who came in, we were doing our science, you know, on the human body. And she came in originally to support her student because her student struggled in my class a lot. And it first started out, she was just sitting and going through the day with him.
And then we got to our science lesson and she had a connection about like arthritis because she has it. And so she sat down with a group of kids and was just telling her story, living with arthritis. And like, that was the first time in like my first year of teaching that I was like, wow, My kids are all engaged.
ds actually want to be here. [:It's a really transactional relationship, right? Versus when you go into a classroom where you can see that the teacher really cares about the kids, really knows who the students are in her classroom, knows about their families and everyone feels welcome and wants to be there. If that makes sense, I don't know if I'm making sense here, but it definitely is a different feeling.
And it's something that really takes a lot of effort for you to cultivate too.
Donita Torres: I, um, you talked about like that first kind of incident was almost like it just happened, right? You invited parents, a parent was there to support their kid and it became an opportunity and the kids connected with that individual. How did that lead to further community connection? I've heard you talk about some of the things you've done and I'd love to hear more.
How did that lead [:Shiara McNeil: I feel like it all is just coming back to us. I'm thinking back now just what the kids wanted. I think a lot of it this year, I just tried to be flexible and listen to what the kids wanted. So after that first initial visit, they were like, wow, like, can my mom come in?
Can my dad come in? And they were really excited. And I was like, well, of course, just let them know. And so kids actually went home and were asking their families if they could come in. And so then I had like this influx of parents asking like, could I come in on this day? Could I do this? Could I do this?
And they're like, oh, I want to come in. I don't know what to do. And I was like, well, let's figure out something to do. So I had parents coming in and they were just telling us about like what they do for a living. Like, where do you live? And. I don't really know like where I was going with that, but just wanted to connect families and have students see like, Oh, this is my friend's parent.
st today? It was after lunch [:We'd have a special guest who would come in and be waiting for us. And they would sometimes just, tell us about like, you know, whose parent they were, what they were doing, or if they were coming in to teach us about something that we were learning, they'd be like, okay, you know, I'm so and so's mom. Here's what I know about this.
And really just like that storytelling piece. And then also aside from like families, I also had a connection with Francine from my undergraduate experience. So I really wanted to just continue that relationship because that was something that It was transformative for me and something I want to continue to foster.
She's like a huge reason why I've been so successful as a teacher, so I wanted to figure out a way I could pull her into the classroom. So I just like, Hey friend, can you come be a special guest? And she did. And then that ended up continuing throughout the whole entire year to where the students were asking all the time, Oh, is Dr.
re always welcome to come. I [:Yeah, what a gift
Donita Torres: to parents. One of my favorite memories as a parent is when we got a postcard before the school year started and it was one year and I, my children were excited. I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel like my child's loved already. So to be intentionally invited, that's powerful. I love to hear that.
Um, I remember you also telling that story about When you did the art day with students and you invited teachers and they dropped in, I thought what a cool experience, um, for students to see future teachers they might have in the school or past teachers sharing fun, doing some art, being creative. I thought that was another cool thing you did.
rson invited into the school [:But great school, like, I mean, whatever, you know, like, that's not it. But I could tell coming in as a guest that this flow that you had kind of started was like, what's going on? Right? Um, and I think that that's so powerful of where we are. Thinking about schools in authentic partnership with family and community as kind of, there's a social emotional learning kind of standard or kind of a guideline that says the walls of the classroom should feel permeable for students, that there's a flow between home and community life and their experience at school, and I, I honestly think, you know, You trusting your intuition and building from your lived experience and then building that into the culture of your classroom is attending to that, you know, wise [00:11:00] and intuitive idea, but not practiced for maybe lots of reasons known and unknown, right?
Like just this gorgeous little gem and what a cool thing it's been to walk with you this first year. You know, truly like I just, your kids are They stole my heart. I would talk about them all the time. Yeah. So,
Donita Torres: so you've kind of alluded to the way having community as a priority impacted your students.
They were eager to have guest speakers interested in what they were sharing. Um, and I'm sure there was many more things you would love to share, but I'm curious, how did it impact you as a teacher? So having the community really invested in your classroom, how did it impact you as
Francene Watson: a professional?
Shiara McNeil: That is a great question.
the stuff, like you can get [:I'm getting this person on schedule and you can get really lost in like the, like the technical side of it. But I think looking back on it now, now that I'm at the end, I'm able to breathe and really reflect on where I've come from. Like. I think I'm really starting to see that it just benefited me. Like I know I have families who are even reaching out to me like, Oh, like how can I help support my student next year?
, just a huge gratitude from [:Like, thank you for all that you've done. Like, thank you for inviting us into the room. Thank you for all that you've done for my student. And I just feel like it's such, I don't know, it's really, I can't think of the word right now, but it's just really powerful. And it, it makes me emotional to see, like, I didn't know that I was going to get into this and make a difference.
Like, everyone gets into teaching and wants to make a positive difference, right? But it can feel really hard, especially with the environment that we're given, right? But to see that I made an impact on families and I was able to like have families still reaching out to me now, even though their students are leaving my classroom.
I think that's really beautiful. Like it even extended to to where I have students who aren't in my class now who will come to me in the hall and say, Oh, hi, Mrs. McNeil. It's good to see you. And I have no idea who they are. No idea. Like it's not siblings. I have no idea whose kids these are, but it's just like that positive ripple of being a community figure instead of just being siloed in my classroom.
This is my [:Donita Torres: Yeah,
Shiara McNeil: That's so awesome.
Donita Torres: Um, I'm wondering, do you have a specific example or maybe examples of how community impacted your students?
Shiara McNeil: Something that comes to mind is just like the connection that they have to each other. I know when I, I guess I haven't shared it on the podcast. I've shared it with Fran. That's why I was thinking, Oh, I already said it.
But, um, when I had first invited Fran and it actually came out of like desperation because I was so Like I, I had my coworkers jokingly telling me like, Oh yeah, you got thrown in the deep end. Like, you know, you have a class this year. And I was like, Oh, what are you talking about? And then I was in those first few months and I was like, okay, I see what they're talking about.
ing on. This is not working. [:I was like, I need another adult in here. Like somebody get in here and help me. So Fran was in there and then seeing the students connect to Fran because she's someone in the community and they were curious, like, how do you know Dr. Watson? Like, where do you know her from? Like, Oh, we're friends. Like, Oh, you're friends.
Like, how do you guys know each other? And then just that curiosity and it like widened their worldview. And then like when parents started coming in too, they're like, Oh, you're so and so's parent. Like sometimes parents would come in and kids would be like, Oh, can I have a play date? Like, I know you're so and so's mom and we're friends.
Can we have a play date? And so it just started fostering those connections for each other. And it really transformed my class to where I feel like they didn't feel connected to each other at first to where now I feel like it's almost kind of like a sibling relationship that they have with each other now.
cted to each other in a more [:Like they feel comfortable enough to say those kinds of things and recorrect, redirect each other, but also support each other and shout each other out. Like, I just don't feel that my class would have been a successful and as positive if I hadn't started building that community and like showing them, like we're all connected, we all affect each other.
And it's so important that we value our relationships with each other instead of just. Valuing like okay, we're gonna come in here and get a really good grade like and I've been telling them that since beginning They're like I don't care really and I know it's taboo to say But I really don't care like if they get a good grade or if they pass the state test like what I care about So they come into my class and they know that they're loved And they know that when they leave, like I will always believe in them.
ike we're still crazy. We're [:Otherwise.
Francene Watson: I just, I don't know. I just, uh, I'm thinking about this little group and as we say goodbye, you know, I've seen a lot of classrooms, but I looked at them, especially raising my own child and seeing him now as a senior in high school, I was like, they will never forget you. They will, on Friday, the seniors in the community are going to their former elementary schools and walking the halls and they will walk that hall and I get goosebumps.
Like they will, they will remember, even if you're not there, they will remember that room and that experience they had. And that is so beautiful because you, you have no idea and you do have an idea. I know you, she already do, but Sherry does. But one person like wet, especially developmentally right now at 10, like.
It sticks, right? Just [:Cause I think a lot of elementary schools, you know, we're kind of very techie, right? A lot of formica, but not a lot of living things to care for. So I brought some plants in, told the kids stories about where the plants came from. And I said, you know, you gotta be really sensitive. You gotta be really sensitive, right?
Cause they hear you. And so the volume like raised and she was like, shh, the plants. And I read, I'll never forget that ever about how much they heard that. And then they started to kind of expand their world around care. And then that with the more than human world.
. And that That is something [:Right. Um, and that's where, what we're hardwired to do. And, um, you looking at them a couple weeks ago, like you did it and they will always have that ethic with them. They will always have that experience and then they'll create it for others. So hats off to you. Amazing.
Donita Torres: So this journey has not been without struggle.
You've shared early on a little bit. Um, what barriers do you think you faced when you were prioritizing community over outcomes? Uh,
think, as educators, we are [:I don't want to, um, like call anyone out or make anyone feel bad. But just things like when I first had parents coming in, I had parents who would same day like, Oh, I just got off. Can I drop in now? And I would tell them yes. Right. Because who am I to say no? I used to work the office job and I know like what it's like to just have like that 30 minutes off that you're like, okay, I can do something with this.
Right. And you can always plan, you can always schedule. And who am I to tell them? No, like I would love for them to be in my class. But as I was first doing that, Then I was getting these emails like, oh, if you're gonna have visitors to the class, you need to let us know ahead of time. And I was like, okay, you know, put yourself in their shoes, they're just getting off work.
And then additionally, they [:There's this volunteer packet that they have to fill out and like a background check and totally understandable. We're working with a vulnerable population, right? But the, just the way it was brought up to me. And then they were like, you can't really have, Like, we know that they've already come before, but you need to pause this until everyone's approved and we know who's coming when.
And I think that really kind of killed the momentum. I will say, like, I didn't have as many parents after that and it was really frustrating. Like that was something that put a huge wrench in it, right? All the little, like I said, systemic things and it serves purposes, but it also felt like in that moment it was being used not like in a targeting way, I'll just say it bluntly.
I had issues just like With [:So it's like a really strict schedule and depending on where you're at You may have a little more freedom or really no freedom at all to decide What's the order of what you're teaching what you're teaching and when you're teaching it So I had to really kind of fight and whisper and erase things and move things around to make sure that I was still meeting like the scope and sequence because it's all about the scope and sequence and making sure I check all the boxes, but also like staying true to myself and saying, okay, like I don't really care about scope and sequence.
This is what I care about. So where can I consistently put time in for this? And that's something I think that is a barrier for anyone looking to implement this. Like Just maybe the attitudes we have towards families in school, some of the actual, like, logistical barriers, and then, of course, like, that need to, Do the curriculum, not really focus on the relationship piece, so I can totally understand why this would feel daunting.
Yeah [:Francene Watson: Yeah, I just when you were talking about sort of the scope and sequence and then that schedule I I feel like even just being with you in a Elementary stage, you know hearing this but you know where we've collapsed Like Sameness for equity. Like if we're doing all the same thing, then it's equitable.
but just kind of the meme of [:structures or techniques where we really need to open that up and start thinking about, like, how do we restore, um, you know, the, the foundation of powerful teaching, which is to use your creative genius, you know, and be in dialogue and in community yourself as teachers. So that, that might be another episode.
Yeah.
Donita Torres: So you've identified some barriers and, They resonated with me a lot. I remember one of our barriers in Colorado was having undocumented parents feeling apprehensive to complete that big packet, right? Like, what are you doing with this information? And how could this impact me?
Um, and I was very fortunate to work in a district that wrapped around, um, That population of parents that said, we want you to be here and we're excited to have you and really supported that. But I do remember that being a barrier because of the fear, the hesitation. And it's all about, we love your kid.
kind of the wrap up our, our [:What kind of advice would you give a teacher?
Shiara McNeil: Okay, two things. For the new teacher who wants to be transformative, Um, I think it's really important to Be creative and not be afraid to push boundaries. And I know, I know, speaking from first hand experience, it's hard. It is hard, and depending on the culture of wherever you work, that may not be possible for you, right?
r structure is given to you, [:And don't be afraid to pause. If it's not working, just stop. You don't have to keep pushing something that doesn't work. I think that's something that I really kept running into the wall against. Like this is not working. This feels bad. Like, Oh, this, this is terrible. And then I'm like, wait, I can change this.
You can. Don't be afraid to change. Don't be afraid to switch it up. And always just co create your space. That'll save you so much time. At the line. And then, for any teachers who want to try this, but are are worried about it. I think at the end of the day, you have to just get serious about yourself.
Remember your why. I think most teachers get into this because not because they're passionate about a subject and they want to share it, but because they care about kids, right? At least at the elementary level, right? You are teaching all subjects and maybe you're not good at all subjects, but you really like working with that population of kids.
like, if I'm going to make a [:Making a choice that's harming kids or making a choice that maybe your admin won't like you for? And I think it's always better to just make a choice that's right for the kids. Because we're in this for the kids, we're in this to be in positive spaces, and just remember, no matter how long you've been in this field, teaching is not supposed to feel terrible.
If you're doing something and it feels bad, it's because you're not supposed to be doing it. You should be having fun with what you're doing, so go back to the drawing board until you're having fun. Trust yourself, especially if you've been doing this for a lot of years, because you know what you're doing.
You should trust yourself, so.
Donita Torres: So the takeaways I got from you is community over outcomes. Co create with your students, with the kids. Trust yourself. If you're doing something and you're not enjoying it, you're doing it wrong. Teaching should be fun. Yeah, yes. Oh my gosh.
Thank you, Sherry, for, um, [:Shiara McNeil: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
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