S01E03. Love-centered teaching

  Welcome to Optical Illusion, the podcast that explores transformative education practices focused on community and wellness. Join us as we dive into innovative approaches from educators and experts who are revolutionizing schools. Discover practical strategies and inspiring stories that highlight the power of culturally responsive teaching and inclusive learning environments.

Whether you're an educator or a parent, tune in to learn how we can celebrate diversity and promote academic success for all students. Now, here's Optical Illusion.

Levon, thanks for joining our podcast today. It's good to have you here. Awesome. Thank you. I am super excited to be here. It has been a lot of fun to just kind of embark on this journey and, and do some learning for, for us and for everyone involved. It's been a lot of fun. Good to see you. I know we've been so virtual for so long that it is different.

It feels a lot better and more natural in person, but we did make it work. We made it work. Yeah. Not, not too many moves had to be made, so it's worth it for sure. So just to start, um, how would you define MBL theory C and why is it an approach that you were exploring as a transformative practice in your classroom?

Um, I would, I would define MBL as a. A way of teaching that reflects everybody within a school system or our whole, our whole goal of teaching from love and centered. I think MBL kind of allows me as a teacher to explore the individual learners needs more appropriately rather than feeling like they're all kind of grouped in one herd and you know What will kind of fit you in the corner over here, but I feel like you know, just catering my assessments towards individual strengths and interests It allows, just automatically plays into the whole cultural responsive part that we're striving for.

And I think MBL isn't necessarily culturally responsive, it's like the vessel to do it. Not necessarily, because you teach MBL doesn't mean you're a culturally responsive teacher. I think it allows you the space to be a culturally responsive teacher. So I think that's why I prefer this whole curriculum over I guess anything else I've, I've, I've learned it.

So you use the term centered on love and wellness. Can you tell us more about that? Um, I've noticed it's so much easier to have a authentic conversation with someone if they feel safe in the classroom or or they just know you'll, you'll give them a real answer and, and hear them through. So what I've learned is basically if You spend a little time kind of making it feel safe, all of a sudden, you can, you, it, the conversation of that comma shouldn't be there, it's in the wrong spot becomes just a little bit easier.

We've, we've had these conversations before, even if it was about it. Sports teams and I think my team's better than yours. We've had those kind of back and forth conversations. So it just, it just makes it feel more natural. I mean, it allows a space where I feel comfortable coming to work every day and it allows a space where I feel like my students feel comfortable showing up to my classroom every day as well.

Oh, I gotta say it warms my heart that the football coach loves his students and says it out loud. I do, I do love all my students, love all my athletes. It has been a lot of fun. Yeah, I really, I guess I, I've heard you say it before, and like, I center my practice on love and wellness, and I'm like, yeah, go football coach.

Yeah, I mean it. Um, I hope all my students, uh, know I, I, I love and I care, and their education is important to me, and it should be important, important to them as well. Yeah, I love it. So could you tell us a little bit about your school setting and how, uh, MBL fits into that model? See, I'm at Kentwood High School in the Kent School District.

Um, and I feel like there's, it's one of the most diverse districts in the, in the state. Um, I can't tell you how many languages or how many, our population, but there's just a vast, vast majority of, of, of cultures and communities within a, um, within our system. Last week or two weeks ago, last Friday, we had a A big ol cultural assembly where everyone came out and kind of did their dances and all that cool stuff.

And it was honestly like, it was almost like 2 hours and 15 minutes long. Because there's just that many groups just coming through and, and just really showing off. And, and it was cool because, in the past we've seen assemblies kind of where, where there's empty spots in the bleachers. And you know, kids are kind of skipping.

But I feel like this one was the loudest it's ever been. The stands were full. So I feel like my school really embraces, um. Everybody and diversity. So I'm at a really diverse school and I do really appreciate that about where I'm at. Yeah, I love that. So, can you tell us about the curriculum structure at your school and how MBL fits with that?

We, uh, we're on a standards based grading so everything is tied to our Common Core State Standards. Um, and it's basically, when I got there they gave us, our curriculum map was a summative. The state standards and the rest was kind of kind of get there how you get there How can you get these kids to write that five paragraph argumentative essay?

So it was really just make sure their summative assessment displays the standards and and that was really about the Biggest conversation I've had about curriculum there was this is a summative here the standards. How can you get there? so really I kind of had a lot of room to Test and see what I liked.

So Immediately I felt like, well, I could, let's see, let's put in, put into practice what I've been learning and kind of rolled the ball from there. So at the beginning I was able to kind of just start with being a culturally responsive teacher and just getting to know my students. Getting that real authentic and community feel and, and then moving from there.

And so I felt like my school had, was really just focused on, here's a, here's a summative, keep the summative the same and then. How can you get these kids to display their learning? It's kind of up to you. So that was kind of a, um, in terms of, um, maybe both being a little overwhelming, but also creative license, and really gave you a lot of choice as a first year teacher.

I mean, I think that's important to say too, right? I feel like, yeah, they gave me a lot of choice, and it's, some people call it being tossed into fire, but I feel like that is a little bit of what teaching is about, is, you know, you're dropped in the classroom with 150 kids you're responsible for. Um, how do you respond and how can you handle it?

So, I felt like every day we preach to these kids autonomy and I feel like that's exactly what my school gave me. Was, how can you, or display what you learned and show me that you can get these kids to Write a, write an essay or give a presentation or have a debate, whatever the state standard was. But they just, yeah, they just allowed me the space and autonomy, kind of what we, we preach for, for our students.

And then, I was able to, to go from there. So, Fran uses a phrase that teachers are culture workers. Um, and Thinking about that in your classroom, um, how might that apply? Um, well we had this, we're actually reading A Raisin in the Sun with my 9th grader, so we've been having this big old talk about how everybody's culture is different and how time's kind of shifted and everything, everything's kind of changing in chunks of time.

So, we've been really stuck on, we've been explaining what the melting pot of America is and we've kind of just been having big, big conversations about You, you look around and it's, it's, nobody's, nobody's kind of the same. What I appreciate about my school is, I look at my classroom and I feel like there's a lot of students who, who look like me or look like people that I grew up with.

And it's not just one dominant group kind of overruling my classroom. It's a very big, very, very broad mix. Like, um, kids from India, kids from South America kids. Yeah, I have kids from everywhere. Um, so it's, it's a cool experience. And I feel like my kids, the community they're in, and they're all really, really accepting.

And, I don't know, they just, they just, I have a really good group of kids who all kind of get along. I think we could learn so much from our young people. A hundred percent. In that dynamic experience of classrooms where they recognize the differences in cultures but also are content with that. I feel like, I feel like kids nowadays are just I'm just better at saying no or I'm not putting up with that.

Or even when a teacher is kind of just like, they don't agree with their teaching style, I'll be like, I don't want, they need the why, you know? Um, I feel like kids are a lot better at saying, I don't understand why, why I'm doing this. I need a, I need an explanation. I appreciate that about the kids I teach.

So I always try to give them the why. Um, please ask me why. Cause we're not just, we're not just reading this article just to read this article or, so. I, I do appreciate that these kids are, are okay with saying, no, I don't like that. Or why are we doing this? Yeah. I can't help but just pause on that a little bit because you said a lot in a few sentences, you know, but it sounds like the culture at your school is, you know, it's really grounded in that value of cultural exchange over.

Although we're on the mic, you couldn't see it, you know, you scare quoted melting pot, right? Like, this idea that we're moving away from that, um, model into real, like, schools and spaces of cultural exchange and kids know themselves, they are confident, they, and then they have that, you know, space and, and trust from the kind of relationships you build to ask for the why, whereas, um, Being scared.

Yeah, give them the space and then Their, their needs will, will be shown and they'll show you what they need. And, like, you know, we always preach, I can grade something but I can't grade nothing. So, give, give me that sentence and we can fix it, turn it into a paragraph, turn it into an essay. But, a blank page is, is a little bit harder to work with.

So, as long as they feel like they could put what they know or put their knowledge onto a piece of paper, um, I think that's the The foundation of, of any learning or should be the foundation of any curriculum. Um, creating that space for risk taking. Yeah. Cause it is scary. It is, especially it's hard to be wrong or it's hard to be wrong in front of 30 other kids.

That's hard to be wrong in life, right? Some kids, some kids don't care, but yeah. Or maybe they do, but the way they show you, you'll never know. It's different. Yeah. Yeah. So you just got to allow them the space to. to breathe and relax and then get to work. So what has it been like for you to learn about and attempt to implement MBL in your classroom?

Um, it's been fun to one, understand that, well I guess we kind of dove into like the history of teaching a little bit, not too much, but um, I really enjoyed kind of grounding our, or starting our learning with. Where did we, where did we start, where did we come from, and where are we, where are we at, and kind of where are we going, where do we want to go?

So it was cool to kind of, you know, back in, we, we could say public education started with Brown vs. Board, right? We could argue that, um, for all, or for all people. Um, and since then, we, we could say that education, the education system is one of the slowest things that evolved, whether we're talking about phones, or cars, or the way we communicate.

And it feels like This is a step towards making that change or speeding up that process or catching up to the rest of the world. Um, because everything around us has changed. I mean, our kids carry laptops around every day. Um, they, we're not even supposed to print as much anymore. Everything's supposed to, you know, everything's going digital.

Everything's changing. Except the way we teach and except, um, so I feel, I feel like MBL is, there's a lot of ways to kind of change it. But I feel like MBL was the most authentic in the, the most appropriate way to, to teach, um, a group of, of kids who are trying to make a, or we're trying to make impactful members of society at the end of the day.

So I feel like MBL just allows a space for grow as a person, grow as an individual and use your mind rather than. Use my mind. So in your classroom, as you start to implement the principles that you had learned of MBL, um, what were some of the first steps you took in doing that? Um, like I said, step one, getting to know the kids, I would say.

And then the next step was figuring out their interests, figuring out what they're like, they like. So, um, the one unit, I think I really focused on MBL the best was my argumentative unit and, uh. I started with that question formulating technique, and we just figured out what's, what are they like? What are they interested in?

Oh, I gave them a poll actually. I gave them a poll that said this or that, and then I picked the one that was the most 50 50 dead split that we could argue about it, and it was school. Something was school and mental health. I can't remember the exact question. So that's how we got our topic was through that poll, and then I gave them the QFT where we kind of came up with all of our questions.

Um, like, what is anxiety? What is depression? How do extracurricular activities impact that? Um, how do teachers impact that? They came up with a huge list of questions. Um, so we narrowed it down to whatever we liked and then ultimately I decided that well, we'll just spend our argumentative unit learning about school and mental health and then our summative will be school and its effects on mental health.

So, all the kids just have the freedom to pick. Whatever topic as long as it relates to school and mental health any direction. I didn't care what it was It just had to talk about the two we decided as a class So we did that and then that was all of my articles where it would have were were about Depression or the effects and statistics and stuff like that.

So we practice our ethos pathos and logos through that rather than taking the district's resource of MLK, I had a dream speech. Um, we just, we just went out, went and found articles, and where's the ethos, where's the pathos, where's the logos, where are the statistics, where's the credibility, and we just ran with it that way, and then that gave them the foundation for, for the essay.

Um, we learned research skills through that the same way. Um, just different, different content, so I guess the biggest thing at the start you should ask yourself as a teacher is am I content based or am I skills based? How well does that apply to MBL because I think MBL is more specific on on skills rather than you know The content we're putting in front of them 100 percent So that was a big part of my thing too is I was 100 percent more skills based so you could decide What we learned but I'll kind of or how we learn it, but I'll decide what we learned and then Ran with it that way.

So that was the very beginning was Running an interest poll and a QFT and that literally set me up for my unit. It does feel kinda, not scary, but it feels like, ooh, should I, should I, should I have pre planned this unit a little bit more? But once they gave me what they wanted to learn about, all the planning came was so much easier because I knew, okay, if we're going to learn about, or if we're going to learn how to research, we can, let's just research stuff we can use for our essay.

If we're going to learn how to, If it's a grammar day, we'll just take any sentence related and throw commas in. So it was just fun to navigate it that way. And rather than being so focused on, I have to have this unit planned four months in advance, three months in advance, and roll through it. It just felt like they guided the learning and took a little bit off my shoulders.

But at the end of the day, they were learning. And it's their learning. So yeah, you spoke to a thing that I myself and I've been studying and working with NBL for quite some time is that balance between state mandated standards and Student led instruction right right and trying to find that That merger of the two, and I, I think in our training, we're trained that standards guide, you know, understanding by design.

Start with the standard, build your unit, build your assessments, or build your assessments and build your unit. Um, and so I think you just spoke to that, right? It's like how you merge the two, but I, and correct me if I'm wrong. I felt like I heard you say a little bit like I kind of felt guilty or I felt.

Just not, not, I guess guilty is a good way to put it, but I just felt like I was doing something wrong. Um, when I didn't. Start the unit with everything I was going to do for the next 40 days. It just felt unnatural. It just felt unnatural because that's what all my co workers are doing. That's what I learned in the teacher prep program.

Um, but the second I figured out through the interest poll what they liked and ran the QFT and had a million questions that they had. It was like, okay, so this is what you guys care about a little bit more. Um. So let's talk about it, let's run with it, and let's learn, and then we would do random activities like tear apart the handbook and just have, have, read one rule and have a 40 minute discussion about why it's wrong or why, why, you know, that one kid would be like, it's actually right.

So we would just have a cool, a cool, authentic space to have those conversations and allowing them to talk about something they cared about kind of propelled it just that much more. I can't help, but we can edit this out, but I can't help but think Vaughn about just about one year ago, a little over now, right?

When we met in February and we did the wicked problem, right? And we were really trying to put, um, MBL practice in, Um, grounded in CRSE into, into motion and mental health, I think was a part of your view. I actually think it was Jackie. Yeah. Um, that was her, her, her big kind of focal point was, and I agree, I mean, if that's what the kids cared about and that was kind of her, her pre assumption was, um, what do these kids care about?

What should they be learning? And that's what, I mean, that's what they picked for me or for our class. Yeah. And I just, I just can't believe how much you've grown in terms of like the kinds of questions you had at that time. Like about time and is there a due date or is there, like, do you remember that?

We were like, well, the sun rises and it sunsets. Yeah, exactly. Time does play a role. It does. Yeah. Well, I just think it's so powerful that you. You had so early in your career an experience of, you know, our focus for the episode is like shifts in instruction. When we shift to center the students, genuine and authentic interest, and we listen, you, you can't, you can barely fit it in, right?

Of every direction you could go, but the kind of intrinsic motivation they had to. Because they have so many questions about all angles of yeah, and then so just the fixated angle that that we've been placing on them The one view you get you get 32 different views on on one topic So that's been fun to navigate and honestly Just when these kids are passionate about something They they give you way better work and it's way more authentic and it's I couldn't get you to write a page about about Shakespeare, but you give me four pages of why we need it.

We need real counselors at our school and our school counselors should, should be trained a little bit differently. And it was like, that was a brilliant argument you had right there. Um, and you only displayed it because you're, you care just a little bit about, about what we were talking about. Well, We can keep going, but it gives me something to think about with what we do do in teacher prep, which is exactly what you said.

You've got to be prepared. You've got to be prepared. You have to. Here's the plan. Here's the plan. That's why we were taught, yeah. But, like, even imagining doing Vaughn's argumentative essay with a cohort of pre service teachers, and then looking at what emerges in a way to understand the different supports that you're kind of getting, you know, you've gotten.

In a lot of ways, but good. That's a great, a great example of where we, we kind of may hold you back, um, in teacher prep where it versus propel you forward. So I appreciate that. Yeah, I think that it also. Create space like so when you get their interest it creates space for the standards or additional standards so through their interest you can assess different things like your ability to create a argument on the fly the ability to and some of those You know, experiences don't exist with a pre planned lesson plan because we're focused on this particular end goal and target.

You know, it's tailored towards this standard. Today we're going to try and hit this standard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And planning has a place. Like, we don't want to minimize the value of planning. Planning is important. Yeah, planning is important. Yeah, but maybe you're creating, you're planning to create space for changes in the plan.

Right? For those on the fly modifications. Um, so can you tell us a little bit about how feedback, you talked a little bit about your instruction. Um, how you've changed that to be more student centered, giving students some agency. So, what role does feedback play in your classroom in the MBL context? I would say feedback is probably the most important part to my students.

Um, at first I, I just gave feedback kind of traditionally, just kind of, they would turn an assignment in, I would write on it and give it back to them. Or they would turn it in on Canvas, I would give them notes, give it back to them. And then we would have maybe a conversation about it, but. More often than not, um, not really.

Um, sometimes a kid would ask. Um, but we didn't really have real conversations about it. So what I started doing, um, is I just started walking around in my classroom and I just made sure I made I made contact with the book, or just like, the corner of the desk, and can I see your book, and what is your work looking like, and just gave them feedback like that.

Even if it was nothing, it would, um, why are we stuck, how can I help you, how can we at least answer the first question. Um, and then go from there, and I walk away, and then go check the other books, and then come back. Um, and I noticed, none of my students felt singled out, um, I wasn't just going to that one kid every time, and even if it was a targeted kid, I would still go to every kid's book, and um, It would, you know, it would look the same even if it was targeted.

So I would just check everybody's book consistently and then just get feedback. And then I noticed about probably somewhere halfway through the third quarter, um, the students would just come up to me and be like, Hey, I finished. Will you read my book? We read my prompt and we, we do this. So feedback just became, all right, well, I'm not going to say no.

Let me sit down and read it real quick. Um, so I did that. And then it's just been, I've been able to fix. minimal mistakes on the fly, um, like that, rather than, alright, we've moved on, we're talking about something else, here's your feedback, um, two weeks later, um, it's just allowed me to, it, some might see it as more work, but it just allowed me to, well, personalize and individualize everybody's feedback, learning, and experience within.

Within my classroom. I love what you said the students come to you for feedback. Yeah, they want that now. Yeah, they do a lot Yeah, like that. They are they do want to see it and you could feel it when they ask the question Can you read this? It's it's not just like, you know read it. Yeah, and they could feel it.

It's authentic and And then yeah, so and when you say book you mean like their composition. Oh, yeah, they're IMB notebook interact interactive notebook Yeah, they just keep all their work in one place The idea is so they can see day one and see day 180 and see the grow, um, the growth. Oh, that's neat. Yeah.

So do students look at their, um, the growth over time? Like, are they able to see their progress? self, every time they turn in, I collect the books every two weeks. So roughly every two weeks. So, um, I give them a self assessment on how well they think they did and it's on completion, organization, and time management.

Um, and they assess themselves on that. So they, they do kind of see the progress cause they'll, well if they get a zero on the first one, obviously I have that conversation. Why did you get a zero on, on your, your notebook? When I collect them in two week intervals and you know, you have all this time, I don't give you homework cause it's all classwork.

So if you don't finish it's homework. And then, yeah, so just that self assessment piece within the. IMBs kind of helps them be accountable and helps me keep them accountable. I still go back and grade it. They get two grades every time they turn in. Their self assessment grade and then the grade I give them on all their work and all that good stuff.

And that's another round of feedback. Because after I get the books again, I write on them again. So, a lot of feedback actually. Now that I think about it. But, it's just, it feels more natural. It all feels natural. It feels like kids are more willing to, to hear feedback, harsh feedback. I don't always have to give them that compliment sandwich and make it feel like, Oh, you did really good, but you did bad, but you did good.

I could, I can just kind of say, Hey, let's work on this skill right now. Or, or, you know, I'm not really seeing, um, what I need to see. And then just kind of go from there. Did I do it yet? Or, you know, so. Well, I'm just getting curious about. You know, I can kind of see and hear and almost get a feel of your classroom because it, it sounds like at least for this unit, maybe not true for every unit, but that because they, they really were invested in.

The learning, there's some intrinsic motivation. I'm not saying that it's there all the time, but you're not needing to do all the direct instruction. Right, yeah, exactly. So it frees you up to move around. Move around. And so the feedback is more authentic and just collaborative, like you're really Because they're working, they're sitting there.

And working, yeah. Okay, cool. I have to say, I love that you talk about being frank with your students, like, yeah, dude, this isn't gonna work. This isn't gonna work, it's not cutting it. We were just having a conversation not long ago about The culture in the classroom and about how, you know, there was a time I called my students turds and they loved it.

And so at the end of the year, they wrote me this card and signed it the turds, but um, it was just like this Affirm, whatever, you know, what is their gonna have and say the warm demander and you know how students respond to that and actually they felt because of that bluntness because of that frankness like You're behaving like a turd right now, so tell me how you're going to fix that.

Yeah, figure it out. It made them feel like I cared about them like my own children. Right. Um, and so I'd love to hear you say, yeah, this is bad. Just, just, just letting them know that I have high expectations for them. Um, that's right. The way they have high expectations for me. Um, so. And of course, words matter.

And we are cognizant of that. I'm nice. I'm not, I'm not mean. I'm not rude. I'm not condescending. But. That frankness, though, for some students really does make them feel like they're one of yours and they know that they care about me. Some of them are testing you. Oh, a lot of them, a lot of them. Are you really, are you really What can I get away with, yeah.

And they want to be called into their brilliance, you know, they really do. As much as they don't, they want to be held accountable. Yeah, they really do. And they come to you for feedback. Tell me, am I meeting your expectations? Am I meeting the criteria for success? Yeah, like I said, setting up two months into the school year, that culture, that conversation, that dialogue becomes so much easier and just so much more natural.

These kids aren't turtle shelling in their desks. So can you share with us what you did that first two months to create that culture? We played, we played a lot of, we did a lot of, I call them ELA games. And I just took games that, like Scattergories, for instance, is a lot, a one they like to play. So I would just be like, alright, um, after we pump out this, this little quick little mini unit that we're doing, um, at the end of the week we could play Scattergories and work on our vocabulary skills.

So we'll just play games like that. Um, and just really. Well, what do you guys want to play at the end of the week or what do you guys want to do? The biggest thing I have two things that really helped me Every Monday I do a question of the week. I put it on my script on the board I put my script up every day with a question or a Monday's question and it's random questions like cats or dogs or What did you do over this four day weekend?

Or things like that. So, every morning, the first ten minutes of class is just a conversation. Um, I don't even tell the kids to do the entry tasks until after I'm done. Um, I just walk around and go desk to desk. And, well, how was your weekend? Do you like cats or dogs? Or, just have that conversation. I like, um, favorite music is a good one.

I always do. Um, I'll make them. Um, if they have their headphones in and they're kind of ignoring me, I'm like, Okay, well just at least show me what you're playing, or listening to. And I'll close the notifications real quick and then show me. So, at least those kids, it took a little, the whole two months of it.

But, but, um, I just poked at them slowly. And then every Friday I do a riddle of the week. So I put up a riddle, um, and then they answer that while I'm taking attendance. So, um, Now they hold me accountable for it. So if I forget Monday, if I forget Friday, they're like, where's the question of the week, where's the riddle of the week?

And that was a big way for me to to, to break through or break down that barrier of of whatever view they had on teachers or English. A lot of kids do not like English. Yeah. A lot of kids do not like English and it's It's one of those classes they need all four years to graduate. Well, reading and writing, right?

Reading and writing, yeah. That's challenging. Yeah, ELA, I guess. Not just English, but ELA as a class. Reading, writing, time management, uh, grammar. Yeah, there's just so much that goes into it. Um, so it is daunting and challenging. Um, So you have to make it safe, and welcoming, and It kind of sounds like you were describing, in, through Castle, the SEL strategy of, like, inclusive welcome.

That's, you know, part of their signature playbook, that purposeful and intentional, every day, doing some kind of welcome. We have, uh That creates community. We made a SEL page in our book, the very last page of our I was like, well, a couple weeks in. Um, our very last page was SEL skills and we'll just every time we did a game we would look at one of our skills or something like that, what are we building, and we did a quick little lesson and they put their notes back there, but that was the last page of their book.

Um, and now that we're at the end of the year, they've been seeing it more because they oh, we have 10 pages left in our book, so it's been cool to kind of oh, why did we learn about this SEL skills again? And then Talk about it. So it's came back around. Um, not all kids kind of know the why but they've been asking the why did we do this?

And yeah, I know the MBL SEL connection social emotional learning is huge. Yeah. No, absolutely right that notion of you know, self regulation And it goes hand in hand. Yeah self management. Yeah, and if our schools are designed to build impactful members of society SEL and coping strategies are should be at the forefront of that Um, because, um, I guess that's what we, we strive for being able to cope and being able to talk and work problems out.

Yeah, I love it. So what barriers have you faced in the shift from an industrial approach of educating to a mastery based approach? Um, the biggest thing is, I guess, preconceived biases of what education is supposed to look like. Um, it's kind of like the same thing. As soon as you hear peanut butter, you think of jelly just because they're, you know, they've been tied together throughout history.

So it was kind of hard to take a step back from that, that regular notion of, of what it means to be a teacher and, and a traditional teacher and follow a traditional model. So it was, it was cool, fun, a little bit daunting to take a step back and say, All right, here are the keys. Let's go for a drive and, and figure out.

The rest on the way, but, um, when you're doing it, it doesn't feel like you're building the airplane in the air. It just feels like, it just feels natural. It feels like, yeah, you know, it just feels natural. Which aspect of MBL have you found to be maybe the most challenging for implementation? Um, I would say probably the grading part.

Um. I, I feel like MBL works best with like a competency based grading. So kind of being in a traditional school and trying to apply MBL strategies and then go back in my brain and think, Okay, how does this fit under A, B, C, D, or F, um, has been a challenge. Um, and then I guess another challenge is Um, our, our high, our overachievers, everyone who's, who loves learning just to learn and super smart kids.

I feel like that's the one that I struggled with the most, um, and that I'll probably spend a little more time this summer or beginning of the school year. Um, learning more skills, how to keep them entertained and learning and kind of on their own path. But I feel like kind of just this personalized approach allows me the space to.

Sit and buckle down and figure out how to personalize one student's educational experience rather than this whole class has to be on the same, same playing field. Um, cause it's not like that anywhere in the world, everybody's, you, you always have kids who are more advanced or slower or on pace. There is a, there is a timeline for where you should be so you can be below or above but um.

I think MBL just allows you to specifically cater to those three levels a little bit, a little bit more than what we've been doing.

Um, when you started to implement MBL, um, did you have any expectations about maybe what would be challenges or hiccups or? Um, I try, I think it's more my philosophy on life, but I try to take it as it, as it came and just kind of rolled with it and I was ready for whatever challenges, I was ready for whatever successes, and I was just fully invested in, I believe in this theory, I believe in this practice, I know I'm doing it, um, I think it's the best practice for these, these students that I'm in front of, so, I felt like I just took it with an open mind, and, and, It was like, because I believed in it, and I feel like, me believing in it, showed them that I believed in it, and it just, made that process more natural, more, um, but I just came to it with an open mind and said, I know why I'm doing this.

I'm not that I know what I'm doing, but I know what I'm doing. Um, I'm going to try and implement mastery based learning and be more culturally responsive and cater my teaching to these kids rather than catering towards the standards and using the standards as This is what we have to do, and you tell me how we do it.

So I just came to it with an open mind, and I try not to, this is gonna be so hard. How can I do it? Um, I try to go to sleep at the exact same time, wake up at the exact same time, and do what I thought was best for, for these kids. So, oh, go on, sorry. How do you think the students have responded to that?

Like, it sounds like you've created a culture that is one of support and rapport, vulnerability and trust. I have one student who comes to mind and he's the youngest of seven. His family's from, uh, Pacific Island. I can't remember which islands. But, um, he's, he's an awesome kid. He struggles in school. And, uh, the other day, a couple weeks ago, When was it?

After our argument of essay. He got, I think he got a, he got a C on it. Um, but it would have been competent on my, on my, um, competency based rubric. But, uh, he was telling me none of my brothers and my sisters graduated and I want to be the first to graduate. And, um, he shows up to my class every day and he tries.

So that was kind of, that's how students have responded. I would say, um, he's probably the pity me a bit of. Let me at least try to do good in one class, um, the class where I feel the most safe or most comfortable. Um, so it's been cool to, to see just his growth and, and I'm going to be the first to do it just because, you know, I, I think I can now.

Um, so that's been, that's been pretty fun to, and he's not the only one like that, there's a million, but he's, he's probably like the first real example. As far as I can tell. This, this does work where, you know, I just start with a place from love and centered with wellness and let them know you care and all of a sudden I'm going to be the first to graduate is a, is a thought they have.

Yeah. That's powerful. Yeah. Yeah. I think about like how confidence is developed as a learner and, um, and I've read a lot about it and looked at some of the research around it and it is small successes like confidence comes from. Successfully balancing on that first step and like, oh, maybe I can take a second simple.

Look at this now. I'm walking And I think that that's where do we give some of those students who have had? Minimal success in school the chance to get their first step so they can start to build confidence as a learner It sounds like that's happening a lot of my philosophy came from from coaching and just I tell my kids every day These kids I coached are they're real good athletes.

We're all super fast super fast I'm so I tell him you've got to go slow to go fast You've got to go slow. You can't outrun your lineman if you want a touchdown. Because now all of a sudden it's 11 on 1. Um, if you take that, that half a second and wait, Um, you have the other 10 guys and now it's a 1 on 1.

Um, so you have to go slow to go fast and that follows into teaching. You have to be able, you have to be able to read a sentence or know what a complete sentence is before you can get to the paragraph, before you can get to the essay. And that's kind of how I, I structured it. Um, especially with that, that kid who, who said I'm going to be the first.

Um, Um, I took what he, what he knew, um, even if it was, and it was really, really low level and just not that he's advanced or anything now, but I took what he knew and then took his interest. And I was like, all right, give me an, give me a essay about Avatar. And so he's explaining why he likes the, the water because it relates to his culture and Avatar kind of reflected that and it was a big part of the second movie.

s life. It wasn't a book from: 1980

1950 or something. He was like, alright, I could write about that. Took it and ran with it. Yeah.

I just love listening and in your practices, just getting every time we talk about it, it's vibrant. It's clear. It's like really integrated, you know, and Bon, it's really fun to, to see you in your first year blossoming in this way and really, I would say, you know, kind of thinking about teacher leadership, um, that's really, that really resonates for me from you, you know, that you're already embodying that.

Um, I had one question we can, this is just came up, but, you know, we, we look at scale, right? You're one teacher, you're a new teacher and you're, you know, kind of implementing some of this training and what, you know, it was a very open training to like really dynamic, like what does this mean to you? And you're seeing some like already, right?

Some layers of this, this shift, right? This great shift. And then in the beginning you talked about the, you know, the, the real value of cultural and knowledge exchange, I think it seems in, in your high school. Right. So do you see kind of an alignment between what you're orienting to, towards like love and wellness centered with the values alongside the school as a whole, or do you see that more as a work in progress?

Um, um, I'd say work in progress with that. That doesn't mean like 50 percent I'd say we're 70, 80 percent kind of getting there. I think, um, our principal. This is really good about, um, care and, and restorative practice and all that. So that's been interesting to navigate. It's been a lot of fun to kind of see how kids respond to, to more, well, approach from love and wellness.

So I feel like my school kind of does embody those traits. I don't think we're all the way there yet. Um, close, but not super close. But I think, um, yeah, my school is kind of on board with Maybe not MBL as a curriculum yet, but more, more the foundational philosophy of, of we care about these kids. We want to build a good community and, you know, this is Kentwood and, and we want students to feel like they want to be here and, and all that.

Um, I think that's what we strive for. I don't think that we're there or we could do different strategies, but. At the end of the day, that is the goal. The overall goal. So, I'd say I'm at a, at a place that with the right guidance and with enough, we'll put proof in air quotes, um, would or could adopt uh, uh, MBL as a, as an official curriculum or something like that.

Um, that's just off of like a outsider view looking in, but, um, I think, yeah. They all, as a staff, they all believe in project based learning. They all believe in, you can use a project to get all the knowledge out of a kid that you need. You can use one project to get ten different skills. Um, but it's kind of just like the grading and deadlines, and they just need more of a definitive, this is what you do, this is how you do it.

When I feel like MBL, I'll call it like water where it just flows and, you know, you could put water in a cup and it goes to that, or you put a water in the bathtub and it'll go to that, so. I just feel like all these teachers want definitive, definitive how do you do this when the kids should be a little bit more in charge.

And, you know, if they want to take the left turn and understand, let's take the left turn and dive a little deeper. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's scary to relinquish the control we were taught to have. Yeah. Yeah. We use the term classroom management as if our, our role is managers of student behavior and rather than a facilitator of a culture that inspires community.

So NBL is relatively new for you and you've really taken it on wholeheartedly. . Um, what advice might you give an educator that teaches in a conventional classroom but would like to transition to an EMBL approach? Um, I would say if you're in a school where you feel like you can't and you're in a conventional school, but you want to, um, make sure you know why, why you want to, and then make sure you are able to have that.

Conversation with this is what I'm doing and I believe in this and here's the evidence. Here's my research If you really want to have this conversation, let's please let's sit down and have this conversation and just be inviting and welcoming and just just be open and know that there's going to be challenges or there's gonna be teachers who Disagree or think that you're absolutely wrong or whatever I don't want to sit here and preach like it's just been a cakewalk and like, you know, I'm hitting home runs out of the park.

I'm still a first year teacher. I still have all those struggles. There's still teachers who feel like I have to prove it to them. There's still, I still have all those and even just being me and what I look like and where I come from and the way I talk or act or dress. It's just not the traditional mold of a teacher.

Um, so not that like I felt like I had to win these teachers over, but there were a bunch of teachers that I had to win over. Um, Um, so I just feel like be able to talk about, don't be scared and show up and, um, be confident. And if you know what you're doing, if you believe in the why, um, you will be confident.

Um, so yeah, just make sure you, you know what you're doing, why you're doing it. And then I think everything else will, will iron itself out and you don't have to dwell on the, what are they going to think? Cause, cause you know what you're doing, and there's a reason, um, just like, there's a reason why I spent all this time doing all this research, or putting this practice in, um, at the end of the day, I've said it multiple times, we're trying to build impactful members of society, and that's, that's our goal, and is, is making sure a kid hits a checklist of standards the way to do it, or kind of inspiring thoughts and thinking and making sure they hit the standards on the way, um.

So it's just a mindset shift. Um, don't be scared of the change. Yeah, and embrace it. Just kind of talk about it. Don't be scared. Thanks, Vaughn. Yeah, for sure. I'm gonna say this and again, this might, may or may not be relevant, but it is relevant for me. Um, I love the way you own your identity. In spite of right like so there is this expectation of what a teacher looks like what an educated person looks like I agree I won't lie, football coach, I've got opinion.

Right, right. No, there's a lot of teachers that are like, oh, you're a coach? Yeah, no, I was a basketball coach. I was like, I teach English on top of it. If I was a coach, I would have picked PE. And not social studies, right? Social studies is the next step. Not social studies. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that's such an asset for students because A, they can identify with the way that you look, that, um, your heritage is not something you deny, but a part of what makes you the amazing human that you are.

And I just think it's, um, such a gift, such a gift and you wear it, you take it responsibly, you know, you really do. Um. Present yourself in a way that lets students know you get to love who you are. Right. And I love you the way that you are, so. You don't have to change, and I think that's my why for teaching is, is, Well, my grandma used to tell me if you could change one person's life, you're doing it right.

So that was kind of my, my motto. And then, um, now it's kind of changed to maybe if I could get one kid to, to want to be a teacher, or one kid to want to change someone's life, then turn it into, I feel like I put myself in a position to affect 150 kids at a time, or a school at a time. So, I just kind of adopted that kind of love and care and wellness and, and ran with it.

And it just kind of applied it to every part of my life, so. Well, I'm breaking stereotypes related to your nationality, right? You're tied to it. It's with you. Uh huh, right? Like, you're using the word love. I mean it, yeah. And, um, I think in so many ways, just Just owning who you are and I think it's just really, really beautiful and, you know, so special and you will never know the impact that you have, but I can guarantee you it's powerful.

Um, so yeah, I mean, just in wrapping up, um, you know, we're thinking about, um, your next steps. So learning is always a journey and you mentioned the NBL is an ongoing learning process for you. What do you think are your most pressing next steps in this journey? Um, I've been trying to map my 10 year plan out because we all know how fast 10 years goes.

But, um, I want to eventually put myself in a position to impact maybe a school or a community with an MBL curriculum or just A whole place, a whole building that's founded on love and care and welcoming and just, just build that environment and kind of see how far, how far you, MBL could go, um, rather than just the one classroom or the two classrooms or the five that we have right now or whatever, or the 18 schools, just kind of how, how far can, can, can we take it, um, Because, like we said, that changed schools, everything that's, that's changed, so I would like to be able to catch up with the rest of the world, because these kids are, are our future, um, whether we like it or not, so let's, let's put them in a good position and let's kind of leave them off on a good note, rather than this cycle that seems to be going downhill, I would say, so.

Well, we've loved having you. Thank you. I enjoyed it. It is. Yeah, any final thoughts you want to share with us or I Don't know. I think I think to all those new teachers, it's just important to make sure you're confident believe in what you do and then strive for for that goal and and Just kind of know why have your why and make sure That's at the forefront of, of your practice.

Yeah, we'll call it Pat. You've been listening to Optical Illusion. We hope you enjoyed this podcast episode and invite you to join us next time as we explore transformative education practices focused on community and wellness. The best way to not miss an episode is hit the subscribe or follow button that your podcast provider gives.

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